Randy Rouse: Ending the Debate of Boxer Vs MMA Fighter, Up and Coming Talent out of Oklahoma and Raising a Son to be a Champion in a Household of Fighters

Exclusive interview by Jesse “New School” Wright

Photos Copyright of Ringside Report

“I pound in to my fighters, you are half as important as the person buying the ticket, because if nobody buys a ticket, no promoter will pick you up. So my fighters are either humble, or I take them out behind the shop and humble them.” — Randy Rouse

Randy Rouse is not one to brag about himself. As a trainer, he is the first to accept blame in defeat, but point the finger at the fighter in success. He is much more comfortable discussing the accomplishments of his fighters than he is discussing himself. His selflessness and dedication to fighters are a throwback to what made this sport so great, and a contrast to the business mindedness of the sport today. The primary objective for Rouse is to see his fighters succeed regardless of if they do it with him or a different trainer.

He has participated in boxing, kickboxing and several other martial arts in one respect or another. As an authority on the subject, Rouse gives an honest perspective on how the major martial arts match up against each other.

Rouse also gives phenomenal insight on the advantage of a father and son trainer/fighter relationship. He is unofficial representative of Oklahoma based boxing and regardless of where his fighters end up, Rouse’s trademark humbleness and dedication are engrained in all of them.

JW: You started off in boxing and crossed over to martial arts. Bruce Lee was popular at that time, and that was your inspiration to make the move. What specific martial arts are you most  intrigued by? What is your particular preference?

My preference as far as combat martial arts is Muay Thai, but I actually started out in Tae Kwon Do.

JW: What appealed to you most about Muay Thai?

Back in the early 80’s the kicks were above the waist, you had to land six kicks per round, it was all the rules set by ISK and some of the other organizations. That fighting was actually pretty easy for us because we had boxing backgrounds. In fact, the first show I ever promoted had me on the radio for three weeks claiming boxing versus kick boxing. I bet on the boxers to win, and we did. That went on great for a couple years. I had guys who were half the experience of other guys on the circuit and they would run through them. It was easy to do. Then when Muay Thai came in to the states, I think it was around 1990, there was a first fight that we walked in to and actually had to take knees and the leg kicks, and in close quarters, the knee kicks took away a lot of the boxing technique. So as opposed to being afraid of it I called Master Tong Trithara from Thailand and started training in Muay Thai. That went for a year and a half and five Muay Thai Championships and that’s where we really got our big jump.

JW: You were a big fan of the martial art of Muay Thai. Now, when you see Mixed Martial Arts where they mix every sport together, do you ever feel that it is diluted or that it takes away from the combatant’s skill level in one specific art?

We actually got in to MMA back in 91, 92, it was way before UFC was big here in the states. I had a champion; Frank Johnson who was a champion before anybody had ever heard of the UFC. At the time, the kick boxers could cross over to MMA and MMA guys could crossover to kick boxing. I think what I learned through the years is that I can put a boxer in MMA and I can put a kick boxer in MMA and they would have a chance at winning a fight, but you could take any MMA guy, it doesn’t matter if it’s George St-Pierre, and put them in a boxing ring with Mayweather, JR. in a straight boxing match, and Mayweather, JR. would smoke em.

That’s really the difference in my opinion. I’ve trained at all three, I actually like kickboxing over MMA. I like the stand up. We’ve had success in all three, so I won’t degrade any of the three, but boxing is definitely a purer sport in my mind.

JW: So you think for a boxer to crossover to MMA, he might have a chance, but if an MMA guy was forced to stand up, he wouldn’t have much success?

Oh yeah. You know, they take a handful of boxers in UFC at the upper level, and they throw them in the ring long after they’re retired. I think they did it with James Toney and a couple other guys. If they get you to the ground, the boxer has no prayer and the kick boxer has no prayer, but you can take a kick boxer, a perfect example was Bud Smith… The Vale Tudo which is the crown of MMA in Tokyo. That was in 94. They had 8 countries and one fighter from every country. They happened to choose my heavyweight out of the states. I think Bud was 190 lbs. and his first fight was against a German that was 7 feet tall almost 300 lbs.; Bud knocked him out in the first round. Now Bud did lose to Royce Gracie.

We got to second place. Like I said, a kick boxer actually has a chance in MMA as well as a boxer. You have the puncher’s chance or a kicker’s chance if they can’t get you to the ground. Now you have more rounded fighters like George St-Pierre and some of those guys when you make it to the top, those guys can box, they can kick they can grapple, but you can’t be the best at all three. That’s one thing I’ve determined: you can’t be the best at all three. Some guys are gonna be better on their feet, some better on the ground, that’s what separates boxing for us.

Now the kid that we’re training right now in boxing is my son (Jarrett Rouse). He’s 9-0 with 4 KO’s in pro boxing, but he was undefeated in MMA, he was undefeated through his amateur kickboxing career. He’s very successful; in fact, he did a couple of legacy fights. A top scout at UFC had him ranked as the 12th best up and coming prospect, and we switched over to boxing. We actually took a pay cut at that time, but the reality of it is that boxing pays a lot more at the top. I still have some kickboxing going on and still have MMA going on, but I’m focused big time on boxing.

JW: That goes back to what you said to “Bad” Brad: If you’re gonna do something, do it big.

That’s true. I think these coaches, and a lot of these coaches think they know something; I’m always amazed at these young guns who say “I’m the best kickboxing coach; I’m the best MMA coach.” That’s just impossible. That can’t be done. I don’t care what anybody says, everybody has their own opinion on these things, but if you get right down to it, if you’re going to be great at anything, it takes everything you have to even have a shot to get in contention, especially for Midwest boxers.

I think Oklahoma, to my knowledge, has only had three world champions, Sean O’Grady back in the 80’s, Tommy Morrison in the early 90’s and then Brenda Rouse in 99. There’s no question, east coast, west coast, that’s where all the top fighters are brought out of because that’s where all the experience lies. You know you’ve got Freddie Roach, you’ve got Kronk Gym up north and so everybody that’s kind of in the middle, if you can bring a fighter out of the Midwest… you know I’ve had a fighter go to Madison Square Garden, to Tokyo, Mexico and just about every state in the United States. We’re fully aware that to bring a fighter out of the Midwest is an accomplishment in itself. So we’ve been successful here and there, and that’s what we’re gonna stick with.

JW: When I talked to “Boom Boom” Mancini, he said that as much as he loved Youngstown, Ohio, his dad said “if you stay, you’ll starve.” Essentially the concept was that if you wanted to make it in boxing, you’ve gotta get out of the Midwest and you have to get to where the markets are for boxing. Now all that being said, what is the boxing scene like in Oklahoma right now?

You know, Oklahoma is busted open right now as far as boxing goes. I met Tony Holden and Tommy Morrison in 1994 at a kickboxing event that I had some fighters on. They came back to the locker room and talked to us and they were extremely interested in Brenda Rouse at the time. She was undefeated in kickboxing with four world titles, but they were impressed with her boxing skills. They knew she had a basic boxing background to be able to do what she was doing. They asked her if there was any interest in boxing and she didn’t have any interest.

About a year later, we actually hooked up and Tommy Morrison came up. He would come to the gym about three times a week up in Bartlesville, and Tommy trained with us there for a couple years and Brenda got in to pro boxing. Her first match might have been in 96. In 99 she won the world championship. In fact she’s the only pro boxer in Oklahoma who defended her title against a number one contender and successfully. She fought Andrea Blevins in New Orleans. She did a 10 rounder and two judges scored it 100 to 90, the third scored it 99 to 91. So she totally dominated the number one contender and she did it with a broken hand. She was coming in to her own at that time.

JW: Brenda’s your wife. So what was it like for the kids growing up in a household where you are their father, and their mother is a world champion? What is the discipline structure in a house like that?

You know, I tell everybody it’s hilarious. Back in the early 80s I had a little bit of recognition. I was Randy Rouse. By 1990, I was Brenda Rouse’s husband. I’ll never forget she fought on ABC Wide World of Sports, the commentator asked a question like “you don’t give her any sass at home because she’d wipe the floor with you?” All I can say is, somebody taught her how to fight, I can handle my own (both laugh). Then it went from that to Jarrett Rouse’s dad and I love it. I told Brenda, Jarrett will be successful when nobody remembers my name or your name.

He’s really starting to make a name for himself. He grew up in the gym. From the time he was old enough to be in a carrier, he was at the gym while his mom was training. He grew up around the fight game. The great thing with Jarrett is that he knew early on what it took to be a champion. He would see his mom wake up early in the morning and do her five mile run and come back and do ten rounds on the heavy bag, ten on the speed bag and then work on the mitts and then in the afternoon go back to the gym for more training and sparring. So he saw what it took to be a successful fighter.

He’s really the easiest person on the planet to work with because he understands it. So you don’t have to beg him to run, you don’t have to ask him to workout. He’s there first, hungry and ready to go.

JW: When you guys first had Jarrett, did you want him to be a fighter, or is it something that naturally happened?

No. Actually, I always assumed that one of the kids would take it up because that’s how I got in to it. By the time I was 15 I became a fighter and I knew I was gonna have to be a fighter.
I assumed one of the kids would pick it up. Now Jarett’s older sister Amber actually kick boxed a couple of times, and she was on her way to be a good fighter, but she was a high school cheerleader. They won nationals a couple of years in a row, so I was more concerned with keeping her grades up and stuff. Then Jarrett, out of nowhere, took an interest when I put on Junior Olympics in Bartlesville and Jarrett was around 12 years old. It was three weeks before the fight and Jarrett said, “Dad, I want to fight.” I said “Jarrett, you haven’t trained at all, these kids have been training for two years for this.” He said “I want to do this I can get in to shape.” Three weeks later, he jumped in the ring and became an Oklahoma Junior Olympic champion.

From that point on, he loved the contact. He just loves to fight. The thing of it is, with Brenda and Jarrett both; I don’t think you would speak to a more humble fighter than either of those two. If you met him under another circumstance, you wouldn’t know he was a fighter. When you flip that switch and the bell rings, they turn in to beasts. Outside the ring, they’re two of the sweetest people I’ve ever known in my life.

JW: I know last month, Jarrett was promoting a kickboxing event under the Rouse banner. Listening to him speak, you can tell he’s a nice, soft spoken guy. He’s not brash, he’s not arrogant, but he can fight.

That’s one thing my dad pounded in to me. You can never brag about yourself. Your actions will let people know what you can do. You see certain boxers or kick boxers and you think “man, that’s a nice guy and he can fight.” Then, nine months later, you’ll see him at a press conference saying “I’m the best in the world.” You think somebody needs to take this guy down a notch. So I pound in to my fighters, the most important person at an event is not the promoter, trainer, manager or fighter; it’s the fan who bought a ticket. I pound in to my fighters, you are half as important as the person buying the ticket, because if nobody buys a ticket, no promoter will pick you up. So my fighters are either humble, or I take them out behind the shop and humble them.

We train to win, right before we walk to the ring and in the locker room, it’s not nice talk. We’re getting ready to do battle. Once the fights over with, that guy’s got all your respect and love in the planet. My guys have to do that. That’s a requirement that I do not overlook. I’ve seen so many guys sit there after the event, and it amazes me how great these coaches are, but when they lose, as opposed to saying they made a mistake, they blame everybody from bad judges, bad referee, fighter has the flu. It’salways something. We’re not that crew. If one of my guys loses… If I have a guy that crawls through those ropes, does everything that he’s taught, does his best to win that fight, and he loses that match, it’s my fault. It’s not his fault. I didn’t have him prepared, or I just got beat by a better team, but regardless, I own that loss. That’s the only way that you’re able to move on and be better the next time out.

You know, the fight game is unforgiving. You’ve got your favorite baseball team, you know they lose, and you can say there’s always next year. You know, you’ve got a fighter that loses a fight, you think, “he’s done, he just got beat.”

JW: I think the big time fighters can also over think a loss. A guy can lose a great fight and his value goes up for having such a great fight.

You know the things that people remember, in my mind… they don’t remember the coach, they don’t remember the promoter, you know, they might not even remember the building where the event took place, but they do remember that one knockdown, drag out fight. A lot of times, I see guys that lose the fight, actually have more respect than the guy that won the fight. It happens. I have a general rule. I tell my guys I would rather lose a war than win a little battle. There’s more pride in losing to a champion than winning against a nobody. So that’s the direction we always head. We want to climb the ladder and fight against the best.

JW: Do you think that’s an old school mindset now because so many guys are so afraid to lose that 0 in the loss column that they never really challenge themselves?

You know, I see that a lot, especially in the Midwest. You can have a guy with a 7-5 record from Philly, and a guy from the Midwest that’s 10-0, and I’m gonna put my money on the 7-5 guy. I couldn’t tell you how many times I saw a journeyman guy out of Mexico and he might have an upside down record and totally demolish a 20-0 guy. The reason for that is the 20-0 guy’s been babied all the way up. He’s never been tested. He’s never been in a battle; he doesn’t know how to handle himself.

In fact, we started working with Tommy Morrison’s sons, and we have Trey Lippe out in L.A. at Freddie Roach’s gym now. I started with Kenzie actually the other son called. Tommy passed away. Kenzie had called and said he wanted to do boxing and wanted my help. I wasn’t doing boxing at the time. I already had my exit strategy set up with kickboxing, but I couldn’t turn the kid down because he was my friend’s son. So we started working with Kenzie and four or five months go by and Tony Holden called and wanted me to take a look at Trey.

We started working with Trey and he was here about ten months and he was undefeated and doing very well. In fact, I was very surprised that we were able to get him that skill level in such a short timeframe. He needed better sparring, and Tony and I talked. It’s more about the fighter than it ever is the coach. He asked, what do you want me to do, and I said we need to get him to where the sparring is at. We’re very fortunate that Freddie Roach saw in him what I saw in him. Freddie took him on, and that’s a no brainer if you can get in the Wild Card gym under that tutelage, that’s your best shot.

Kenzie, we worked with him for a year and a half, he’s a slick guy, and he’s got a lot of potential. He wanted to move back to Missouri, so he’s back in Joplin. We’re fortunate because one of the other coaches on this Four State Franchise that Tony Holden started up is in the Joplin area. His name is Dallas Cook, and Dallas took Kenzie in, so we don’t have to worry about him being with a coach that we don’t know. So I’m looking forward to all those boys’ futures.

JW: So he went over to Wild Card, and everybody knows Freddie is like a fighter whisperer, similar to a horse whisperer. In these camps that are considered elite camps, examples being Abel Sanchez in Big Bear, Freddie at Wild Card, or even Floyd who has a state of the art facility, what do they have in their camps that you feel gives a fighter an advantage by training with them?

I think the only way the Midwest would have the same advantages is if fighters were built up here. You know, fighters are gonna go where the fights are, Vegas, California, New York. Now, if we had a Vegas in the middle of Missouri, that would be a good deal. So when you go to Wild Card Gym, not only do you have the experience of an incredible coaching staff, but you have the best, toughest prospects on the planet beating on you every day. You have to get that sparring in with top 20 competitors.

If you can get that in with coaching regiments, that’s a well balanced situation for every fighter. I think all these coaches have their ways of doing things, and there are far greater coaches than myself, but when it gets right down to it, when the fundamentals are there for every boxer, then you start seeing the difference in coaching.

I had a pro boxer named Verdell Smith, and he was a journeyman when I got him. I worked with him for maybe six months, and he fought Craig Kikta on ESPN for the IBC title and Verdell knocked him out in the eighth round. Kikta was the next up and comer, the next big time fighter and he had that west coast advantages, but he got wiped out by a Midwest fighter.
We’re gonna win some fights. We’re not gonna have what they have in the Catskills. We’re not gonna have what they have in Big Bear. That takes years to build that. I don’t ever see that happening in the Midwest.

JW: You seem like a real family man who loves his son quite a lot. Is it ever hard when you get in his corner and you see him getting hit? It’s one thing to care about a fighter, but does it change when it’s blood?

You know, actually it doesn’t. I’ve done this for so many years that when I’m walking to the ring, I flip a switch. When I get to the corner, I don’t have a wife, I don’t have a son, I don’t have a daughter, I don’t have a home, I don’t have anything. Everything is focused on that job that we’re trying to do. Until that bell rings, I don’t even know how to explain that. It’s strictly a coach and a fighter. There’s nothing personal.

Now the advantage that I have, and probably all dads have, is there are some buttons that we might know how to push that a traditional coach wouldn’t know. What I mean by buttons is we can be behind in a fight, and there are certain words that trigger a boost out of the fighter to get him to come out the next round and turn things around. Every fighter has something about them. Some guys, you can bring up another fighter that they don’t want to be compared to. It’s just any little thing.

All these personalities, you have to learn every personality. You have to know them intimately. These fighters, when you take them on, you’re not just taking them on, you’re taking on their families. You actually care about a fighter. How his relationship with his wife is. How his kids are doing in school. How’s work going. You take on a larger family. I think the great coaches like Freddie Roach understand it. One thing about Freddie is you can see the love between him and his fighters. He can have ten guys that are at that top level, and all ten guys have that connection with Freddie. Now I guarantee you Freddie knows a button to push as a way of pulling out the best that that guy has, and probably all ten of those things are different. Every one of them has a different level of thresholds of pain, or pride. I assume all those coaches have that.

JW: It sounds like right now you have a solid stable of fighters, some aren’t with you right now, but those are your boys. What do you want in the future for your team? What do you see the future holding for your team?

I think we sit back and reflect a lot on the direction we want to go based on where we’ve been. My goal right now is I think the next two to three years, I’m gonna build Jarrett up. Jarrett’s probably gonna take over for me once he retires from fighting. Right now, we’re very hooked in to this Four State Franchise with Tony Holden. Tony is doing something that’s never been done before; he’s putting a team together. A lot of the promoters, and Tony was no different from the other promoters at the time, have a high level of clientele. Tony had Johnny Tapia, Tommy Morrison, Michael Moorer and many more. Tony’s always had top contenders and champions that he’s promoting.

This time, he’s taken five kids from the Midwest, and we expect big things out of this team. At least one or two out of the five really have a good chance down the road. We’re gonna build this franchise up with Tony Holden and back him all the way on it. The end game after that, we’ll see what it is once we’re there.

For now, I want to keep this legacy going where you can bring fighters out of the Midwest and I can take them to Thailand, I can take them to Japan, I can take them to Mexico, wherever and win fights. That’s probably the biggest thing that I’m interested in. I want these guys to have a shot at something bigger than the Midwest and bigger than themselves. I want them to be able to reflect back and realize that they’ve done something that not many can do.

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