John David “Action” Jackson: Boxing From the Inside Out

 

Exclusive Interview by Marc Anthony

“I have a lot of younger fighters that I am grooming to become world champions. That will really judge how good of a teacher I am in boxing when it’s all said and done.”- John David Jackson

John David Jackson, 36-4-1, 20 KO’s, was an American boxer during the early 80’s through the 90’s. He was also known for his defensive minded style yet willingness to also engage. His first title run for the WBO Light Middleweight championship was in 1988 when he defeated Lupe Aquino. Lupe did not come out for the 8th round.

Jackson defended his title for 4 ½ years giving the fans many memorable fights. Later in 1993, John challenged Reggie Johnson for the WBA middleweight title and won by unanimous decision.

Later in 1997, John had a very memorable fight against Bernard Hopkins, a former sparring partner. Unfortunately John was not able to win and Hopkins kept his IBF middleweight title. After the fight, Bernard in his speech remarked how he learned how to fight a southpaw from John and would like to use him in his camp when he faces southpaws. In 1999, John retired from boxing after winning his last fight with a TKO in the 2nd round.

Currently John can be found teaching and training champions and future champions. He has trained Allan Green, Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley, Nate Campbell, Jameel McCline, and Marcus Upshaw to name a few. But his true passion is to train an athlete from start to finish.

John sits with RSR and explains the inside of the boxing teacher’s mind…

MA: Did you use a lot of mind games during your fights?

Most of the time…not really. If your mindset is strong, it doesn’t matter what games are being played. Sometimes, if you notice your opponent is kind of weak mentally, you might play a little bit of mind games with him. For the most part, I really didn’t do that.

MA: Anyone that comes to mind that you did play mind games with?

I defended my title against Steve Little who went on to become WBA Super Middleweight Champion but I fought him as Junior Middleweight and I played mind games with him because I knew he a lot of weight to lose for that fight. So I added more stress to him mentally trying to make that weight more than anything else. He is the first person I can think of that I played mind games with.

MA: Do you feel that boxing match making has changed compared to the 90’s?

It changed in a lot of ways. I will tell you one way that it has changed. Years ago, the matchmakers pretty much work for the promoter. They would put the fights on that the promoters wanted. These days, a lot of matchmakers make matches. Say you are a manager and you want your kid to be on the card. What you do is you go to the matchmaker put my kid on the card and get both ends of the purse. That makes for bad matchmaking as far as good fights because win or lose you are guaranteed. Now a days, not so much. Maybe at the upper echelon of boxing but some of the mid-level fights and a couple of bigger fights on the undercards a lot of managers get paid both ends of the purse and it makes for bad matchmaking because you would rather have a competitive fight than a noncompetitive fight.

Another thing with matchmaking unfortunately in boxing today…TV has become the promoters not the promoters themselves. TV dictates the fights, when they fight.

Promoters are more like the managers now. They have the fighters and they go to TV for the fights. So, TV is now the promoter basically and the promoters are now managers of the fighters.

MA: Do you feel TV is so ratings driven that it hurts boxing in some ways?

I think with TV there is good and bad. The good… they show fights. The bad part is which is good for the fans but bad for the fighters is that TV wants knockouts. That’s all they really want is a knockout. I know they want exciting fights but they want the knockouts.

If a professional is a good boxer you rarely see that fighter on TV. You won’t see the scientific part of boxing on TV because again … TV wants knockouts. They want to draw the fans in. I understand that but it robs really good technically sound fighters a chance to show their skills…their craftsmanship because of the knockouts. If you are not an exciting fighter you are never going be on TV and the promoters shy away from it. If you are technically sound but you are not willing to take risks? The promoters kind of shy away from that because all they want are exciting TV fighters.

Exciting TV fighters are not the best or well taught fighters in boxing a lot of times. That’s how pretty much the way TV dictates it. The really good crafted professional fighter might not get in on TV as much as a brawler type of fighter who may not be technically sound but is more exciting for the fans. Fan appeal is what TV wants and what the promoter has to deliver.

MA: That leads me to ask what do you think it will take to not only have an American heavyweight capture a world title but the fans also?

First, we need a heavyweight fighter who will stand the test of time…be able to face adversity…any style in the ring, be able to overcome it and win. One that will be victorious and move on to the next stage. The Klitschko’s? They came on at the right time. They are not bad fighters but they are not really great fighters. If they fought in the 70’s or the 80’s even the early 90’s they would have not made it. They were so many good fighters that were not even champions that were heavyweights back then they would probably have been level B fighters. They are strong guys but they are not really craftsmen. There not really boxers. They are just bigger guys who bully their opponents. Don’t get me wrong, they have done well for themselves; they have beaten the best that can be afforded to them but that shows just how bad the state of boxing as far as the heavyweight division is concerned.

What will it take to answer your question, someone who can groom these kids to stick around and be a heavyweight fighter and teach him well? Hopefully he has the hunger and desire to want to stick with boxing and become the heavyweight champion of the world. Most of the times it really is just grooming your fighter who is a good heavyweight to stick with it and become a very good and maybe great heavyweight boxing champion. To go a little further with that, that’s the bad state of amateur boxing in this country.

Most of the countries they pay their amateurs. They are starting to do it now in America but if you get into boxing as whole Olympic wise, even if you come from the Olympic team you won’t be paid a lot of money to turn pro. Not like back in the 76, 80, and 84 Olympics. They are not doing it. I think Oscar is the last American fighter that got a nice deal when he turned professional. So, the money not really there right now for amateur fighters to stick with it and pursue their dream of making it in the Olympics let alone of winning a Gold, Bronze or Silver medal.

MA: Since you are a top boxing trainer do you have any fighters that the fans should keep an eye out for?

Brad Solomon is currently ranked number one in the WBA’s welterweight division. How long will he keep that position? I don’t know because he is going through a dispute with his promoter right now and they may drop him in the ranking because of inactivity. He is one fighter the fans should really keep their eyes on.

MA: What type of boxing style does he possess?

He is defensive and offensive. His defense is in his legs. He falls in the category as a Roy Jones – Muhammad Ali. What I am getting to do is realize even though those two are great fighters. There short coming was…once their legs gave way you have to really know how to fight as a professional: inside fighting, off the ropes he didn’t have that. He took shots but he didn’t bend at the waist much just roll with the head.

Same thing with Roy, he was a very naturally talented fighter but once the reflexes gave way and the legs began to give way… then Roy become a normal fighter who unfortunately has been getting stopped. And that’s because no one taught him a lot of the finer points of boxing. They didn’t teach him anymore than he knows now. So when he got in that situation later down the line he only knew what he did best and that unfortunately was his shortcoming. So what I tell Brad is even though you have these great legs and you have these great reflexes and you throw great combinations? Let’s work on three other things because one day you might get in a fight that you might get in that deep water you won’t know how to swim and navigate through those deep currents. He is a very teachable student at any level. He learns and he learns quickly and he listens. He is learning the finer techniques of boxing to become a better pro than he is today.

MA: I wanted to get your assessment of Joe Calzaghe now that he is retired?

You have to give Joe his due. He is undefeated. He beat everybody in front of him. Joe’s style was and I used to joke about it and I told Bernard that he better watch it because he might slap you to death. Joe may have had brittle hands. I am not sure if Joe’s hands were really truly always healed up but I know his hands were bad. But Joe would slap you to death. Joe had this type of rhythm that if you let him get into this rhythm, once he got into it, and you can’t off set him he will just slap the heck out of you. And that’s would he did to most fighters.

What he did was rather than say he slapped them to death he would overwhelm them with volume punching. Joe would hit you with four-five –six punch combinations and most fighters can’t deal with that. When he fought Roy? Roy started out in a good manner by walking him down and keeping his hands up high. As the rounds began to mount the volume punches was so great that Roy couldn’t keep up with him and pretty much had Roy on the defense and he was on the offense.

Same with Bernard, it was me Freddie and Nazim Richardson in his corner but that wasn’t my fight strategy honestly. I would have had him fight differently being that he was a south paw. But they let Freddie be the lead guy so I just stepped back and let Freddie do his thing. They had no fight plan for that kid. He is a tough guy. You have to at least rank Joe amongst the greatest 168lbs in boxing of all time. He might be the best. You might not like him and his style might not be the most appreciated you have to give him his just due. He fought and beat 2 hall of famer’s, probably more in his career and he went undefeated so hey you have to give him his just due. He is probably the best 168 pounder there is because he walked away on top of his game. Was he my favorite fighter? No, but I have to give him the respect he deserves.

MA: Who was your favorite fighter?

Well, growing up. Ali was the reason way I got into boxing. I loved it for some reason as a kid but when I watched Ali and the way he acted? That was my idol in boxing pretty much. From that point on, I always liked stylish fighters. Wilfred Benitez, Wilfredo Gomez. Stylish fighters Sugar Ray Leonard you know those guys are pretty much the guys I gravitate towards. I didn’t appreciate the punchers until later on in life. Boxers were the guys that I always looked up to growing up in boxing.

MA: You held the WBO title for 4 ½ years, and then you fought Reggie Johnson for the WBA and who was also a southpaw. What do you remember about that fight?

That was a very strategic fight for me. I knew going into the fight he was a very good boxer. The one thing I notice with boxers, this is from years of experience. Most boxers can’t really beat another good boxer. Most boxers, we thrive of guys coming right at us. Because in retreat we will just pick them apart, but when you have 2 boxers won’t engage each other and no one is trying to be the lead guy. It throws the fighter off his rhythm. So I knew the first two rounds I jumped on him and I shocked him right there. That wasn’t the knock on me. I was a safety first boxer.

By the third or fourth round I turned the tide and I just boxed him without moving away in the middle of the ring we kept that fight right there. Which was a great fight because it was very strategic and very tactical but for the fans it wasn’t the most exciting night of boxing I will tell you that right away? It wasn’t the most exciting fight for the fight fans but it was a very good strategic fight for him and me. Any true fight fan will watch that fight because 2 tacticians trying to play mind games while actually fighting each other? It was a nice fight for us.

MA: When you fought Bernard you said he smiled when he knew you were tired because you had to take a lot of weight off can you tell us the story?

Oh yeah, if you ever watch Bernard’s fights, he kind of breaks his opponents down. Once he realizes that he has you? That’s when Bernard went after the guy. A lot of guys call it getting brave. He got brave as the fight went on. In the beginning he is very tactical. He took his time and be methodical trying to break his opponents down. I boxed him but like I said after the fight I never complained about it but I told the story to Bernard, we talked about it.

He said John I really trained hard because you were the only guy that ever gave me a whole lot of trouble when we sparred but at the end of the second round I went back to my corner and I told them that it’s going to be a long night. They asked me why, and I told them I had nothing left. They said “what do you mean?” Physically I am drained. My legs are gone but I am going to do the best I can. In the third round he came back and he looked at me and smiled. He gave that smile like I got you. I know I got you because I had nothing left for him. Listen, that’s boxing. I can’t cry about it. I had to survive the best way I could. The referee stopped the fight and when he stopped it he said John you are not getting hit but I have to stop the fight because you are not punching back. But in my mind that’s all I can do to stay in this fight without getting hit. That’s all I had left. So, you know you live and learn.

MA: What’s the most underrated training tool in boxing?

That’s a tough question for me. And I will tell you why that’s a tough question. Because Marc, unfortunately in boxing today there are so many so called trainers in boxing that aren’t teachers of the game. They’re not teachers of boxing. So many trainers never even had fights with a top level fighter. Never had fights, then you have a couple of trainers that were decent amateur fighters but they never had a pro fight. They don’t know what it’s like to go round 10 in a hard fight, sucking wind and you have the guy across from you and now you have 2 rounds left. You have to find a way to navigate through that deep water and beat this guy.

How many guys can say they have been down that road in a 12 round championship fight and do that? Not too many. So, to answer your question, the art of boxing is lost. It’s not getting taught. I can’t really put it on one thing. I can say defense because that is was my forte but it’s not even that. A lot of guys can’t stay in the pocket and punch without getting hit. Slip shots and fire right back. A lot of guys can’t stay in the pocket and rock the cradle and when you are coming out rocking the cradle you are coming out with four or five punch combinations.

MA: Is there a light at the end of this tunnel where the art will come back?

(Laughter) I like that… Yeah. A lot of these good trainers in the gym are pushed aside for some young guy who can do mitt work. They can’t teach you how to fight but he does great mitt work. He is not a good trainer he is just a guy who can do mitt work really well. Some good trainer who can really teach you, guess what? They won’t go to him they will go to the young guy.

A lot of kids they don’t want to learn. All they want to do is be great on the mitts better than anybody else. So, unless these managers start letting these kids be taught by someone who knows about boxing and understands the game then the art may be lost. As long as you have good trainers that can teach these kids how to fight then the art will never really be lost. The teaching may not be what it should be sometimes. But good fighters sometimes learn off each other and they watch other fighters and they steal another fighter’s move. And that makes him become a good fighter. It will always be there and it will never be lost as far as good teachers being around? That as time goes on may be a thing of the past.

MA: Would you be willing to ever take someone from beginning to end and take them to become a world champion?

A lot of my young guys who turned pro and I took them through the amateurs. That’s what I am doing now. A lot of my guys that are now pro’s that are 9-0, 6-0 I started them from day one. That is the mark of a good teacher in boxing. Like my trainer Georgie Benton did, He took all these guys that first turn pro and he took them from day one and they all become world champions. Holyfield, Whitaker, Meldrick Taylor. So I have a lot of young guys like that. And that’s my goal, I have 2 Cuban kids that are really good one is Yordenis Ugas he is a welterweight 9 -0 right now. The other kid Yunier Dorticos he is a cruiser and is 12-0 with 12 knockouts he is a kid to watch. He might be champion by next year sometime. I take these kids from day one and try to groom them into world champions. I have a lot of young guys like that. Within the next 2 or 3 years that is when things should really be popping for me. I have fighters right now. Randall Bailey who is a number one contender who is next in line to fight Andre Berto sometime in January, I have fighters in the mix but I have a lot of younger fighters that I am grooming to become world champions. That will really judge how good of a teacher I am in boxing when it’s all said and done.

MA: Anything in closing?

Anytime I appreciate it, anytime you want to talk about anything give me a call.

John David Jackson
Nickname: “Action”
Division: Middleweight
Professional Record: 36-4-0 20 KO’s

1999-09-25 Dave Boone Temecula, US W TKO 2

1998-02-20 Jorge Fernando Castro Cipolletti, AR L UD 10
vacant WBA Fedelatin Super Middleweight Title
1997-04-19 Bernard Hopkins Shreveport, US L TKO 7
IBF Middleweight Title

1996-11-20 Abdullah Ramadan Fort Lauderdale, US L PTS 10
1996-06-29 Augustine Renteria Indio, US W PTS 10

1995-12-16 Guy Stanford Philadelphia, US W PTS 10
1995-04-29 James Green Landover, US W PTS 8

1994-12-10 Jorge Fernando Castro Monterrey, MX L TKO 9
WBA World Middleweight Title
1994-09-24 Danny Garcia Atlantic City, US W KO 7
1994-05-06 Jeff Johnson Atlantic City, US W TKO 7

1993-10-01 Reggie Johnson Buenos Aires, AR W UD 12
WBA World Middleweight Title
1993-09-03 Charles LaCour Tucson, US W TKO 3

1992-12-19 Michele Mastrodonato San Severo, IT W TKO 10
WBO Light Middleweight Title
1992-10-22 Sergio Medina Irvine, US W UD 10
1992-09-19 Eric Martin Tacoma, US W PTS 10
1992-06-09 Pat Lawlor San Francisco, US W TKO 9
WBO Light Middleweight Title

1991-07-21 Tyrone Trice Atlantic City, US W UD 12
WBO Light Middleweight Title
1991-05-10 Joaquin Velasquez Lewiston, US W UD 10

1990-10-23 Chris Pyatt Leicester, UK W UD 12
WBO Light Middleweight Title
1990-07-24 Brinatty Maquilon Atlantic City, US W UD 10
1990-02-17 Martin Camara Chapillion, FR NC NC 11
WBO Light Middleweight Title

1989-12-01 Ruben Villaman Tucson, US W KO 2
1989-04-22 Steve Little Auburn Hills, US W TKO 8
WBO Light Middleweight Title

1988-12-08 Lupe Aquino Detroit, US W RTD 7
vacant WBO Light Middleweight Title
1988-10-07 Aniseto Ramos Auburn Hills, US W TKO 4

1987-07-21 Davey Moore Atlantic City, US W UD 10
1987-01-13 Sidney Outlaw Philadelphia, US W TKO 6

1986-11-25 Johnny Banks Atlantic City, US W KO 1
1986-10-28 Tony Ojo Pennsauken, US W TKO 3
1986-07-31 Milton Leaks Atlantic City, US W UD 8
1986-06-14 Mike Castronova Reading, US W TKO 1
1986-02-25 Orlando Montalvo Atlantic City, US W KO 2

1985-09-04 Vincent Mays Atlantic City, US W TKO 5
1985-07-18 Robert Thomas Philadelphia, US W UD 8
1985-06-13 Billy Joe Atlantic City, US W TKO 1
1985-03-20 Gary Tibbs Atlantic City, US W TKO 4

1984-10-17 Felipe Montellano Atlantic City, US W UD 6
1984-06-26 Louis Owens Atlantic City, US W UD 6
1984-05-10 Robert Thomas Philadelphia, US W PTS 6
1984-04-11 Keith Todd Scranton, US W KO 3
1984-03-11 Kimbrady Carriker Atlantic City, US W KO 1