Ray “Boom Boom” Mancini: What PBC is Doing Wrong, What’s Missing in Boxing and How He Found the Will to Keep Moving Forward

Exclusive interview by Jesse “New School” Wright

Lead In Photo Copyright Ringside Report

“You know what they all lack? They got no charisma. None of them. There ain’t nobody. There you go man. Ray Leonard’s smile lit up the room. It lit up the room man! He had charisma! CHA-RIIIS-MA! Duran walked in the room and you just went “UMMMPHH,” you shuddered. Tommy walked in the room and that was the Hitman! The Motor City Cobra! They had charisma! These guys (today), they have flash, but there’s no substance.” —Ray “Boom Boom” Mancini

You can’t help but love a guy like Ray “Boom Boom” Mancini. His come forward style made him one of boxing’s biggest stars of the 80’s and it shows in every facet of his life. He pulls no punches and is direct in everything he says. His story, although it could be construed as negative, is actually an extremely positive display of resilience. We discussed the ever adapting landscape of the boxing universe, and compare Ray’s success on primetime network television to that of today. Ray’s self awareness allows him to take an honest look at himself and the circumstances that made him who he is. He is now a member of the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

JW: You take a lot of pride in being from Youngstown as well as in being your father’s son.  One thing your father told you is if you don’t go to New York to box, you’ll starve (as opposed to leaving Youngstown).  What did he mean by that?

He meant as a fighter, not as a person. The fighting world was not big here (in Youngstown). There were only two places in the 70’s, New York and L.A. So even when he fought, my father went pro in 1937, the first two years he starved. He said “hey Raymond, I couldn’t get fights, I starved.” It happened to be, by happenstance, that there was a fighter named Billy Seuss from Farrell, PA who was fighting here on a main event and my father was on the undercard, and Ray Arcel trained Billy Seuss. So my father’s trainer at that time, Slick Marino, said to Ray Arcel he said “look, I’ve got this kid, I can’t do nothin for him, I can’t move him, would you be able to take him on?” Ray said “you get yourself over to me and I’ll take care of you.” The next day, my father gets on a bus and goes to New York. When he got to New York, we’re at Central Station, he went to Stillman’s Gym and Ray Arcel wasn’t around. He was away, one of his fighters was training for a title fight. So they told my father where to stay with the rest of the fighters. It turned out that Ray Arcel had to come back, and they told him that there was a kid coming looking for him by the name of Lenny Mancini. Ray called him and said “stick around, I need to train this fighter, after I get done I’ll look out for you and take care of you.”

That’s what happened, my father went to the gym the next day and started training. The point being that back then, for you to stay in Youngstown you would starve. You know, there’s a lot of good amateur fighters from there from the late 60’s, early 70’s that stayed around Youngstown, but there was nothing happening so they got no recognition. So these guys would get booking agents that would get them fights, but they were on the road, they were road fighters. They had no fan base here. Nobody was turning pro here. I was the first one to turn pro in many years. What I’m most proud of is that we created the boxing business here in Youngstown. Anybody will tell you that. I’m very proud of that.

JW: You have a ton of pride for your hometown of Youngstown. Now, I know what it’s like to have your city criticized because I’m from Chicago

Hey, Chitown is my town! I love Chicago! (both laugh)

JW: But people who have never been here criticize it all the time. Do you feel like Youngstown is misunderstood in that way? People call Youngstown a dump, but you love Youngstown. Where does all that pride come from? Why is your heart always going to be in Youngstown?

It’s the people. It’s all about the people. It’s the blue collared guys. The funny thing is for years we took a beating. We’ve been knocked on our ass for years. I don’t know if we ever fully recovered, but we’re doing good now. In the last five years or so, we have the number one think tank in the country. It’s Turner Technologies. The Youngstown State University is the number one business school in the country. We’ve really turned this town around.

Ten years ago, you could shoot a cannonball, I mean this literally, across town after 5:00 without hitting anybody. Now, we have several businesses, restaurants and bars, and on a weekend we can have anywhere from 2500-3000 people in town on a weekend.

On the other side, it’s in the top ten for crime and murder. When you’re depressed economically, the only thing that breeds is crime. It’s a dichotomy. Even in the 50’s and 60’s when the steel mills were blowing great, we were still the only city in the country that was controlled by two major crime families. We were always known for, for one, being a steel producing city, two, for fighting and football, and three was crime, wise guys, you know, organized crime. It’s always been that, and it hasn’t changed, it’s just that, everybody knows who it is. Everybody knows everybody. If you watch the documentary I produced, “Youngstown: Still Standing,” it will tell you everything.

JW: CBS built you up, and they essentially took your personality and identity as a fighter with a lot of heart, and they made you a star. Free TV boxing died out for a while, and now it’s back. Do you think a guy like Al Haymon, or just PBC in general are able to do with the guys today what was done with you?

First of all, I don’t know Al Haymon. I’ve heard his name for years, and I respect and appreciate what he’s doing bringing boxing back to network television. I appreciate it. Now you have to understand, when I was fighting, Moore Churnick was the head of boxing at CBS, but Rick Gentile was running CBS sports. What they were smart enough to do, and this is what I’m not so sure, or I haven’t seen PBC do, is define good storylines. For me, I had a good storyline, I wanted to win the title for my father, that’s not made up, that’s just what was. Mort Sharnik was smart enough to find the storyline.

Now I’ve heard that I’m a made for TV fighter; manufactured by CBS. I was good for TV because I had a fan-friendly style. They say I’m manufactured and I laugh because when I fought to get my title, CBS did a lightweight tournament. So we had to fight top ten contenders. To be in the tournament, you had to be in the top ten. So I beat the number six contender, I was 10 at the time, and then I beat the number three contender after that, that’s the one against Jose Luis Ramirez that really changed the game because I realized I could fight. Then I got a shot at Alexis Arguello. When I fought Alexis, it was after he beat Jim Watt and we actually thought we were catching him at the right time. He didn’t look all that impressive against Jim Watt. I had been a fan of Alexis for years, I loved Alexis when he won the featherweight title by beating Ruben Olivares and I saw him when he won the super featherweight title by beating Alfredo Escalera.

When the opportunity came to fight him, it was like, to be the best, you gotta fight the best. There ain’t no tap dancing around anymore, like the PBC does. So it’s one thing I’m proud of, that yes, I was made by television, but the bottom line is, what does it mean if you’re not a winning fighter? If you’re a losing fighter, there’s no story!

JW: Well they marketed you, but there are guys today who are great fighters that can’t be sold to the public.

I laugh when people say manufactured. I say yeah, a lot of good products are manufactured, but if it’s a terrible product, it don’t mean shit. You know, Cadillac is manufactured by Cadillac. If it’s a shit product, it’s a shit product! I was made for TV because I had a fan friendly style, plus it was broadcast on Saturday and Sunday afternoon. If you’re a losing fighter, what does it mean? It doesn’t mean shit.

JW: That’s the atmosphere of boxing though. No matter what you do, somebody will have something negative to say.

That don’t bother me. CBS was a network that made stars out of a lot of us: Myself, Alexis, Hector Camacho. Alexis had his story, he was a champion finally getting his due. You had Camacho, a kid from Spanish Harlem who comes from rough ways. So they had storylines. Now going back to Haymon. I like the fact that fights are on network television and a lot of them. Sometimes people say well it’s inundated now. Well no! If you’re a fight fan you love it. The problem is that there’s no storylines! We don’t know enough about Danny Garcia when he fight’s Robert Guerrero. Robert Guerrero, he quit fighting for his wife for a while to take care of his kid. That’s an interesting story. They should have built upon that, but PBC didn’t do that.

So what I’m saying is that they’re not making these guys stars in the sense that CBS did where they would do ten minute vignettes before the fights. PBC, it’s very manufactured, it’s glits and glamour, there’s a slice on the fight, but that’s it. They don’t talk about the person. So what Al Haymon was able to do was put boxing on network television which is great, but as of recently, that well’s being drained very quickly. So whether they’re successful or not, we’re going to find out in the next couple months real quick.

The point I’m making is they built no stars up. At least Arum, Don King, Duva at Main Events, they built storylines and they had the networks work on those storylines. At PBC there’s no storylines; I don’t know nothing about these fighters.

JW: It seems like it’s a little bit of a watered down product. It’s as generic as possible, but as you said, there is a lot of drama to every fighter.

That’s what you want. You know it’s funny, I was flipping through the channels this morning and there happened to be something on Bobby Chacon and it happened to be at the point when I fought on HBO and I said “oh, I recognize this.” When I fought him on HBO they talked about his wife committing suicide and they had a five minute story. I was tearing up because I still love Bobby, and that was before my fight. You know his wife didn’t want him to fight, he promised her one more shot, she ended up committing suicide, he didn’t know if he could go on. If you’re watching the guy, you wanna root for the guy. The story of Bobby was so touching it was heartbreaking. We don’t see that now.

Now we’ve got a fight coming up with Keith Thurman and Shawn Porter. That’s a big fight coming up. I don’t know anything about them. I know Shawn personally, he’s from Akron, not far from where I’m at. I know a little about him; I met him in LA at Freddie’s gym. He has three kids, but I know nothing about him besides that. I know nothing about Keith Thurman. So my point being it’s a great fight, but who are these guys?

JW: You’re a guy who’s dealt with drama, you’ve dealt with hardships and it seems like your mentality was to get busy, stay busy and move forward. Was it ever hard for you to come to peace with some of the hardships in your life? Particularly when your brother passed.

At that time in my life, I was moving forward in my life. Much like my fight style, I deal with things head on. Like my brother’s death, I grieved it, I mourned it and then I had to move on. I buried him and I had to leave for training camp the next day. I didn’t have to go, but my parents told me I had to go, and I knew I had to go because I would have never gone on with my life.

The mourning process doesn’t stop when you move on, it’s a continual process. Some people just never move on, and they get stuck. What happens when you get stuck is you stay, and you never dig yourself out of that hole. You might as well jump in a hole, throw dirt on yourself and that’s it because you don’t move on.
In my life, I’ve had to move on with things, and I rely on my faith and say my prayers and that’s all. Now, when I left here, I didn’t know how I was gonna react, I didn’t know how I was gonna feel, but I had to move forward. That’s much like my style of fighting and it’s much like my business style.

My style is about coming forward. If I’m not getting answers, I’m looking for answers. Now I’ve learned to be more patient. I’m learning to be better. Sometimes, you come forward, and you rattle the cage and sometimes you turn people off because you’re too abrasive. I’m not disrespectful verbally, but it’s because I want answers. I think I’ve learned to have a little more finesse. I call it the ten day rule. I give ten days. I don’t bother you for ten days, and in ten days I’m calling and I want an answer. I learned from a successful businessman, in ten days they either know or they don’t and they’re not interested. If they don’t make a move in ten days they aren’t interested. You’ll have a deal on the table for months and months and you’ll just be wasting your time. I wasted a lot of time in the entertainment business waiting and hoping that something would come through, but that’s a bullshit thing. Give them ten days and if nothing happens in ten days, move on.

JW: So you leave for New York at 18, you come back to bury your brother at 19 and then leave the very next day.

I was actually training for a fight that would’ve been in January and it fell out. I said to my trainer, “hey Griff, I’ve been training hard, the fight fell out, can I go home for a little bit?” Now when I came in, it was Saturday February 7th and I came home to surprise my parents. I stayed til that Thursday and I went back.

Now the thing is, my Mother said “Are you gonna call your brother?” I said “Ma, yeah, I’m sure he knows I’m home by now, can’t he call me?” So Sunday, she says “Are you gonna call your brother?” I said “Mom, he knows I’m home by now why don’t he come by?” That Monday I called him, didn’t get no answer, he didn’t pick up. I said “See? I call him and he don’t even pick up. He knows I’ve been here a couple days why don’t he pick up?” Tuesday I went by, he wasn’t around. Thursday I was back in the gym, and Saturday is when I got the call…

I felt so guilty… but it’s part of life. I tried to see him, I went by to see him, he wasn’t around… you know, he didn’t come by for whatever reason… but you get through it, you have to say your prayers. You just rely on your faith, and you do things. I do. I say my prayers and I don’t question it. I move on. The problem is that people are sitting there looking for answers that they’re never gonna get. They’re looking for answers that they can never receive. You’ve gotta rely on your faith. If you don’t it’s like you’re stuck on a wheel. Just running on a wheel and going nowhere.

JW: It’s that faith and mentality that you have that allows you to move forward. It looks the same in the ring because it’s an emotional thing to watch. You never gave up. I want to know what goes through your head, when you’re in the 13th and 14th round and you’re giving the other guy everything, but he’s still hitting you back, what’s going through your head? What’s getting you through that fight? What emotions are going through your head?

Before a fight, you say your prayers and you rely on that you trained as hard as you could, your conditioning is there and you go through the fight in your mind. If I catch this guy, will I drop him? How will I react? If I have him hurt, what am I gonna do? If I get hit and get dropped, how will I react? So you go through every scenario in your mind so when it happens, you’ve already been there. With guys, even like Argeullo, you believe you’re gonna beat them and you have the faith you’re gonna beat them. If I didn’t train as hard as I did, then I’d doubt myself, but I didn’t doubt myself because I knew I trained as hard as I could.

When I fought Ramirez, I was such a big dog. That was a fight where I trained for him and I watched him and I knew from watching him that style wise, I had the right style to beat him. When I fought Arguello, I really believed I was gonna beat him. I believed my strength, my enthusiasm and my pressure was gonna overcome his experience. As I watched the fight later, I realized I gave him too much respect. I smothered him in the first few rounds, but as the rounds started going by I gave him too much distance. By the later rounds you can see I’m making him miss with that right hand, but I’m at the end of it. I’m giving him enough leverage to throw it. So I go back and realize that I gave him too much respect, but did I doubt myself? No. Nobody creates space like Alexis Arguello. After watching that, I thought “I have the experience to beat this guy now.” That fight taught me I could be world champion.

JW: When you were in that Arguello fight, the hardest part was after the 12th round.

He caught me. That’s why I tell people all the time, the true championship distance is 15, it’s not 12. Fighters nowadays, good fighters, some of them have some great fights, but in the era of 12 rounds, it’s hard to call a fighter great.

The history of boxing was changed by 15 rounds. If it weren’t for 15 rounds, the course of boxing would be changed. For instance, Joe Louis don’t beat Billy Conn. He’s way behind going in to the 13th round. Rocky Marciano is way behind Joe Walcott, and then he knocks Walcott out in the 13th round. Rocky wouldn’t have won the world title if it was 12. Ray Leonard’s WAY behind Tommy going in to the 14th round. That fight put him in to a mythical echelon. If it’s 12, Tommy beats him.

That’s why the true championship distance is 15 rounds. If it’s 12 rounds, I’m undefeated because I was beating Alexis after 12 and I was beating Bramble after 12 in the first fight. That’s the difference between pretenders and contenders, the champs and the chumps. Nowadays they’ll never know what they’re able to do because they’ll never have to. That’s why I’ve said it’s hard to talk about fighters today being great fighters.

Even a guy like Floyd Mayweather, JR. has great talent, but could he go 15? We’ll never know. What would happen? We don’t know. When we’re talking about the greatest ever, it’s delusional and it’s funny because we can’t talk about anyone in the 12 round era. Some guys I’ll say, that’s a great fighter, like Floyd or Pacquiao, but should they be compared with Duran, Leonard and Hearns? I don’t think so. You can’t.

JW: A lot of the guys from the old days will say that with the guys fighting today, the fundamentals are gone. The old school of thought is gone. The Cus D’Amato’s are gone and there aren’t many trainers today to pass that on. That goes for boxers, but it also goes for the punchers who are the tough grinder guys like you. Would you say that it’s a lost art to do what you did, and to do what some of the fundamentally sound guys like the Duran’s did?

Well first of all, Duran had a style of his own. As a matter of fact, he did things wrong, but it was right for him! When somebody throws a right hand, they tell you to roll underneath it. He use to ride with it and then throw back.

To answer your question, the first thing you don’t see is the head movement. The head movement! I just asked this the other day: where are the Joe Frazier’s? Where’s Joe Frazier in the heavyweight division? Joe Frazier, what would he have done with these guys nowadays? Like my father use to say, he would’ve put them in his back pocket and used them as change. That’s what Joe Frazier would’ve done with these guys.

There’s no great heavyweights after that. Tyson did it because of his style. Not only was he a hell of a fighter, great fighter, but he had style. It’s the same thing style wise. I see these guys coming out of the Olympics, and Danny Garcia, I’m not knocking Danny Garcia, I don’t know him and I’m sure he’s a good guy. Good fighter, but he fought Robert Guerrero, god bless him, good heart and a lot of pride, but body wouldn’t do what his heart and mind wanted to do, he just got old in one fight. What would Leonard have done to Garcia?

I tweeted this, and I don’t tweet a lot, but I said what would Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns or Roberto Duran have done to him? I mean… Duran would’ve bent him over and turned him in to a grill! Hearns would’ve stretched him and Leonard would have played with him. Benitez would’ve had him talking to himself. He would’ve had him punching air and talking to himself. Even Donald Curry who was from my era would’ve played with this kid. That’s how great Donald Curry was!

So when I see that I think maaan, God bless the kid, I’m happy for Danny Garcia, he’s making his money, but you can’t compare them to the guys of the 80’s. He would’ve been a good contender back then at best.

JW: What do you think it is that he’s lacking? He will probably be one of the best Welterweights in boxing right now. What would you say he’s lacking that they had back then? Is it just style?

I’ll tell you right now what he’s lacking, and it’s the same thing as Keith Thurman, Thurman can punch like a son of a gun, but we don’t know if he can take a punch. He got whacked in the belly by Luis Collazo and it almost shut him down. Keith Thurman can punch like a son of a gun and Shawn Porter can punch like a son of a gun, but we don’t know if he can take a whack. He got winded against Broner and Broner tapped him on the chin and he went down.

You know what they all lack? They got no charisma. None of them. There ain’t nobody. There you go man. Ray Leonard’s smile lit up the room. It lit up the room man! He had charisma! CHA-RIIIS-MA! Duran walked in the room and you just went “UMMMPHH,” you shuddered. Tommy walked in the room and that was the Hitman! The Motor City Cobra! They had charisma! These guys (today), they have flash, but there’s no substance.

JW: Who would you say has the “it” factor in the modern era if anybody?

Umm… Golovkin. He has charisma and he’s destroying people. Chocolatito Gonzalez, even though he doesn’t speak any English, he’s crossing over. It’s like Duran, even though he didn’t speak any English, you loved watching him, and he had that fighting power. That’s what Gonzalez has. He’s just walking through guys. Him and Triple G are the best two punch combo to put on the same card.

I think this Keith Thurman, when he speaks and even Shawn Porter, they’re sweet kids. Shawn Porter, if he comes out and beats Keith Thurman sensationally, Shawn Porter could possibly have it. It Keith Thurman beats him, Keith Thurman could possibly have it.Tyson Fury just beat Klitschko. Tyson Fury would be tremendous, he’s a great sound bite. Can’t fight a lick, but he’s a great sound bite, but how long will that last?

JW: Do you think he shows charisma when he fights? Because he was showboating in that fight, but even that seemed ugly.

No, not at all when he fights. The thing is, Klitschko, they had him on “Real Sports” on HBO. It was funny because at the press conference Fury told Klitschko “you are boring, you have no charisma.” It’s funny because it’s true! He has ABSOLUTELY no charisma. Klitschko didn’t even care! At least Fury has the personality. He can’t fight a lick, but he’ll make it fun.
I hope they put him and Wilder together because they talk a lot. The press conference will be entertaining, probably more than the fight itself.

JW: Although Wilder is a little sloppy.

As Fury is.

JW: He can definitely punch.

That’s right, Wilder can punch. He’s sloppy, but he can punch. Fury, he’s all over the place, but he’s bigger than Wilder.

JW: He’s a mess…

But boxing hasn’t been fun in a long time. They would make it fun. That’s the difference.

JW: What do you want your legacy to be? You were just inducted in to the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 2015. Which by the way congratulations because it is well deserved.

Thank you. That’s very kind of you.

JW: Your legacy is well cemented, but what do you want people to remember you for?

A guy who came and gave it his all, put on a good show and wasn’t a bad fighter.

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