Brian's Boxing Mailbag (Pound-for-Pound List, Manny Chicken Pacquiao)
By Brian Wilbur
Hey y’all, greetings from RSR’s mailbag master. I’ve got a great column for you this week thanks to all of the email submissions. I’ve said that in the past and may or may not have been lying, but this time I’m telling the truth.
Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. was in action in a typical Top Rank Mex-ploitation pay per view card. I’m happy that Top Rank has found a consistent audience with these second rate fight cards but I cannot get into them. What a snooze-fest of a line up with the main event pitting two hype jobs against each other and the undercard being a complete mismatch between a legend versus a scrub. The results were predictable: Chavez decisioned “Irish” John Duddy and Marco Antonio Barrera didn’t lose a round. Wake me up when there is a competitive fight between quality fighters.
With little attention on boxing last weekend, the fighting world was focused on the Strikeforce event featuring Fedor Emelianenko and Farbricio Werdum. What did Fedor, the greatest MMAer of all time, do with this spotlight? He snapped his amazing win streak by tapping out in the first round. MMA is among the hardest sports to accurately predict. There are so many variables, allowing an inferior fighter to win much more often than in boxing.
Sure, boxing has the “lucky punch” allowing Hasim Rahman to beat Lennox Lewis and Ingemar Johanssen to beat Floyd Patterson just as two examples. MMA also has lucky punches, but also lucky kicks, unlikely submission holds, etc. Shogun Rua’s choke out loss to Forrest Griffin (the only real blemish on his record) is looking more and more like an aberration after his recent championship success. Even Brock Lesnar showed that his loss to Frank Mir was the result of an unlikely submission hold in the rematch. No matter how good fighter A is, if fighter B gets him in a submission hold there is nothing that he can do; fight over. You have to think that Emelianenko would have a very good chance to gain revenge against Werdrum in a rematch.
Another anticipated heavyweight MMA match is on deck for this weekend. UFC champ Brock Lesnar will take on Shane Carwin, in a fight that Vegas oddsmakers think is very evenly matched. My prediction is that Lesnar dodges Carwin’s big punches, bull rushes him to the ground, and uses his wrestling skills to win on the ground. We’ll see what happens though. MMA fans are luck to get two great heavyweight match ups in back to back weeks.
With nothing big coming up next weekend in the world of boxing, we revert to our favorite past time when waiting for big fights to come up: compiling pound-for-pound lists! The first emailer of the week sends me his list and I offer my critiques. Enjoy the mailbag this week and feel free to email me your own pound-for-pound list or any topic concerning the fight game.
Pound-for-Pound List and Random Thoughts
This would be my P4P list judging from recent level of opposition (pleasecomment on this):
1. Manny Pacquiao (fought and dominated Miguel Cotto and Joshua Clottey)
2. Floyd Mayweather (fought and dominated Shane Mosley)
3. Paul Williams (defeated Sergio Martinez and shut out Winky Wright)
4. Sergio Martinez (defeated Kelly Pavlik, should’ve won against Cintron and held his own against Paul Williams — may have gotten questionable decision too)
5. Andre Ward (defeated pre-tournament favorite Mikkel Kessler and outclassed Allan Green. And he’s now the new favorite to win Super Six tourney)
6. Chad Dawson (has defeated Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver in all 4 fights — will fight much younger Jean Pascal for breath of fresh air)
7. Wladimir Klitschko (can pretty much win over any active heavyweight that is not named Klitschko)
8. Timothy Bradley (has solid wins over Lamont Peterson and Kendall Holt and now moves up to welterweight)
9. Juan Manuel Lopez (has won convincingly against solid titleholder Steven Luevano but needs to step up his level of opposition even more — Celestino Caballero anyone?)
10. Miguel Cotto (no shame in being defeated by Manny Pacquiao… he somehow regained his stock by dominating Yuri Foreman)
Random thoughts:
I think the super featherweights are stinking up the joint right now. I see no dominant fighter in this division.
Both the featherweight and junior welterweight divisions have a deep talent pool but it’s sad that we’re not seeing the good match ups being made. Sigh.
Do you think Amir Khan is being overprotected by Golden Boy Promotions? Same with
Juan Manuel Lopez and Top Rank?
The junior welterweight tourney was a great idea but GBP shot it down by saying their fighters won’t participate in it. Talk about being the future of boxing huh?
Let’s cross our fingers for the Pacquiao vs. Mayweather bout.
Who is your dark horse for the Super Six Tournament? Why?
-Joopabs
Joopabs,
I have a few thoughts on your P4P list. I agree with your top two spots, and in that order. Pacquiao, hands down, should be above Mayweather. Chad Dawson, Sergio Martinez, and Paul Williams are the next tier down so put them in whatever order you want. I agree that Andre Ward is the favorite to win the Super Six, but he doesn’t get credit for us thinking he will win; he has to go out and do it. Until he wins one or two more big fights I would not have Ward in the top 5. Wladimir Klitschko, though his record is superb, I would leave out because I don’t include heavyweights in a pound for pound list. Timothy Bradley is deserving of his spot; he is solid all around. I can see your argument for Miguel Cotto too. Juan Manuel Lopez is a little bit of a stretch because, despite his overwhelming talent, is lacking in recent quality opponents. Lopez is on the same level as Celestino Caballero until he dares to take a bigger challenge.
One guy who should be on that you left out is Fernando Montiel. Montiel has been on a tear the last few years against the best of his weight classes, culminating in his stunning win over Hozumi Hasegawa. I might even have Montiel in the top 5.
Agreed about the super featherweight division. That weight class is a huge void, of talent and interesting fights. I also agree with you about the featherweight and junior welterweight divisions. Those divisions are glaring examples of what is wrong with boxing. Managers are too cautious with their cash cows to the point where they refuse to challenge them. Eventually fans will stop caring.
Amir Khan is being protected by Golden Boy, and for good reason! The guy has a China-chin. Look at how they are matching him up. They are putting him in against either second rate fighters, undersized fighters, or guys with no power. No wonder he looks so good. None of his opponents can expose his only weakness. Golden Boy blocked the 140 pound tournament idea for exactly this reason, they were scared of losing. What a shame, but I suppose you can’t blame them for doing so because signing on the dotted line would result in their fighter’s carefully crafted mirage of a reputation being tarnished when he is exposed against an elite, hard-hitting junior welterweight.
Juan Manuel Lopez is not being protected necessarily. His lack of marquee opponents has more to do with politics and money. Top Rank likes to match-make in house, so they are gearing up towards a collision between Lopez and Yuriorkis Gamboa. Someone like Caballero is much more deserving, but Gamboa is a sweet match up too and both are Top Rank fighters.
I’m not sure if you can have a dark horse candidate for the Super Six unless you are picking Allan Green (and I wouldn’t). Everyone besides Green and Andre Ward are 1-1 and equally matched. I would rank their chances as follows: Ward, Dirrell, Abraham, Froch, then Kessler. It is anybody’s tournament and even though I ranked Kessler last, he is still very much alive.
Chicken Manny Running Scared
Brian,
First time to write in, but I am so tired of Manny Pacquiao running like a chicken from a little blood test. What do you think he should do?
Also, is it me, or does Bob Arum seemed stoned all the time? I saw a video of some kid interviewing him at Fan House and Bobby Boy’s eyes were redder than Jerry Garcia’s when he fronted The Grateful Dead.
-Paul
Paul
According to the reports I have been reading, the drug testing issue is not the problem anymore. Seems as if they have finally both agreed to the 14 day cut off period for blood tests. The issue now is over money. Previously they agreed on a 50/50 split, but Mayweather is wanting a bigger cut now since his PPV against Shane Mosley did better than Pacquiao’s PPV against Joshua Clottey. Although I am not happy that the negotiations have hit a snag yet again, at least haggling over money is conventional and standard practice. Scrapping the fight over drug testing protocol blew my mind. I understood the legitimate arguments from both fighters but can’t believe that either of them let that get in the way of so much money.
No comment on whether or not Bob Arum is high all the time. If I see him blazing up I’ll let you know.
Mayweather’s Massive Purse
Hi Brian.
Its been a while man! How are ya?
I just have a short question for you. Manny Pacquiao’s fight with Joshua Clottey earned him a purse in the neighborhood of $12.5 million and the fight took place in the big dome in Dallas. Floyd’s bout against Sugar Shane Mosley happened in Las Vegas and I heard he earned around $22.5 million by way of the purse.
Excluding both fighters’ extra perks, how did it happen that Floyd earned $22.5 million to Pacquiao’s $12.5 million. Does it mean that Golden Boy Promotions earned lesser that what Bob Arum did? And my next question is how do these promoters come up with the amount of the purse (never mind the split)? The numbers just don’t seem to match up with drawing power it seems.
Thanks Chief!
-Rotciv54
Rotciv54,
Having the fight in Vegas helps a fighter’s purse tremendously. Las Vegas casinos pay exorbitant site fees in order to lure the top name boxers. The Vegas casinos don’t even care if they lose money on the fight because they say that the added foot traffic and advertisement for their casinos more than makes up for the losses. In other words, hosting a major fight gives a major boost to their overall business, like a huge shot of adrenaline.
A local arena, like Cowboys stadium, has no casinos or shows they are trying to sell. They must make a profit from hosting the fight itself. If Vegas is offering site fees that are so big that it does not make business sense, then local arenas can’t compete. Hosting a major fight in Las Vegas, such as a Pacquiao or a Mayweather fight, means you can tack on about 30% to the main attraction’s purse.
This is why most almost every major fight for the last decade has been in a casino. Bob Arum realized that this was hurting the sport overall because the marquee fights were not accessible to most fans. He went out of his way to hold the Pacquiao fight at a local arena despite having to cut into his profits. The event was still a success and they made tons of money, just not as much.
Holding the fight in Vegas accounts for some of the discrepancy between the purse differences you are referring to ($22.5 million to Mayweather for his fight against Mosley and $12.5 million to Pacquiao for his fight against Clottey), but not all of it. Mayweather made quite a bit more, and the PPV did a lot better. I believe that Mayweather and Pacquiao are equal PPV attractions, so I account the rest of the difference to Shane Mosley being a more recognizable name than Joshua Clottey, much better advertising on the part of Mosley vs. Mayweather, and HBO’s cozy relationship with Golden Boy. Nobody outside of hardcore boxing fans had ever heard of Clottey, despite being told by experts that he was a quality opponent. Mosley is close to being a household name even though at this stage of his career he is/was no better than Clottey.
And I am unsure how much of a cut Top Rank and Golden Boy take compared to each other but I would assume that the numbers are comparable, or if anything Golden Boy takes less of a cut since that is their business model; giving more to the fighters.
After Mayweather vs. Marquez and Pacquiao vs. Cotto when Pacquiao’s PPV did so much better, Mayweather tried to make the argument that the only reason Pacquiao did better was because he had a more marketable opponent. He didn’t get anywhere in that argument. Now Pacquiao is trying to make the same argument but he may have to concede a larger chunk of the purse because he did not allow Mayweather to use that argument last time. You can’t really blame Pacquiao though because he chose the best available opponent at the time, and only because Mosley vs. Berto was canceled that Mayweather was able to fight Mosley.
50/50 is the most fair split, but 55/45 Mayweather would be acceptable too based on how amazingly well the Mayweather vs. Mosley fight did.
Rampage Jackson as a Boxer
Brian,
I agree with most of what you’ve said concerning the 5 potential MMA to Boxing candidates. But I will have to disagree with you on Quinton Jackson being a potential Ricardo Mayorga. I think Rampage’s style has a more calculated approach than Mayorga’s. Mayorga leaves himself wide open when he throws, especially when he commits, which Rampage rarely ever does. Rampage’s upper body’s swirling defensive movement when pitching his power shots is one to be noted. The slow-mo replay of his KO punch on Wanderlei Silva displays this brilliantly, wherein the shot his right arm rolled upward to act as a shield while his left worked, as if at the same time, for the killing blow. This is why I feel he’ll be a better boxer than Mayorga. The only time his defense was opened up was when his opponents worked on his legs, without leg kicks his defense is pretty solid.
“Wrecking ball mentality,” I like that term with Rampage. Unfortunately, I don’t think he’s been a “berserker” since being trained properly. At first the improvement seemed dramatic, especially in his stand-up. But the buck stopped there. While his striking was no doubt leaps better than before, it made him very predictable. He was better when his fighting was guided by his natural instincts and not by the routine of training. Do you think it’s way off mark when I say, absurdly enough, that the key to Rampage’s success in the future lies in his past? I think his present coaches may not understand Rampage. Someone needs to re-tap on his old ways and forge it into the current. And speaking of Mayorga, and not to take anything away from him, I think he is the kind of fight that I would expect BJ Penn and Anderson Silva to win by a wide margin.
-SJ
SJ,
You dare disagree with me? Well you’re wrong LOL! Rampage’s stand up defense is good, but his punches look just as wide and reckless as anything that Mayorga would throw. Jackson is about as good as he was before, only different. He was not exactly undefeated using his old style, and I think he could revert whenever he wanted to. I’m really looking forward to see who Dana White matches Quentin Jackson up against next because despite his recent losses, he is still one of my favorite MMA fighters to watch.
Thanks for reading folks. I look forward to all of your responses and emails to be answered for next week’s mailbag.